> Child Abuse
The following pictures of two children with chickenpox were posted to an anti-vaccination mailing list by the proud parents of these abused children. The parents boasted about how they were giving their children "natural immunity". This harmless disease can cause skin infections, scarring, nervous system and brain damage and even death. Please note the pustule on the boy's lower eyelid, and then think about how you would prevent a four-year-old from scratching it. As I said, the parents of the children are very proud of the fact that they are giving their children "natural immunity". I imagine that they will also give them "natural immunity" to broken bones and facial scarring by allowing them to travel in the car without restraints. I wonder how they are going to give them "natural immunity" to hepatitis B and other sexually-transmitted diseases.
For some reason, people seem to think that I refer to chickenpox as child abuse. This is not what I mean at all. Varicella is a serious medical condition. These children were abused because their parents thought that it was a matter of pride that the kids had become sick. This is as much a form of abuse as beating them or having sex with them. Perhaps more, because bashers and sexual predators usually don't publicly boast about the fact and show photographs to strangers in order to progress their perverted agendas. Anti-vaccination liars, however, hold as an article of faith that the end justifies the means.
I have received some correspondence about this page.
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:26:19 EDT
Subject: Are you crazy?
Calling natural chicken pox child abuse? Where exactly did you get your degree? The real abusers are the idiots blindly getting this dangerous vaccine that is going to wear off somewhere in their 20s (they think!!) and are going to be horribly sick or die from a disease that as a child (without immunity problems) is nothing but 3 days of itchy bumps! Maybe if the mothers who took DES or got X-rays when they were pregnant years ago when it was considered safe by doctors had questioned "the medical field" just a little, so many women wouldn't have cancer or already be dead right now!!! Before you call people abusers, get both sides, and all the facts, otherwise, you look like the idiot! Deana
I didn't call chickenpox "child abuse". What I called "child abuse" was allowing children to catch the disease and then boasting about it and showing pictures of the sick children to strangers.
From: "C Ewton"
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:42:11 -0700
Would you like to add the picture of my two children who had chickenpox and recovered and are now 18 and 15 and immune for life?
No, why would I want to do that? I also had chickenpox as a child. When I caught it again from my daughter (who also caught it as a child) I was quite ill.
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 09:27:25 -0400
Subject: Remove photos
On behalf of the Xxxxxxx family, I must demand that you remove all photos of their children from your website (https://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/vaxliars/chickenpox.htm) IMMEDIATELY, or we will file charges against you for libel, slander, child endangerment, and copyright infringement.
First of all, you obviously know nothing about the subject you are publishing. Second, this well respected and loving family's children could be recognized, putting their safety at risk. Finally, you have not obtained the rights, license, or permission to possess or publish these images.
Remove them IMMEDIATELY, and provide proof of having done so (I can be contacted at the address below), as we have already contacted Law Enforcement Officials.
Several points need comment here. Firstly, I did not identify the parents, the children or the family in any way. Until I read this email, I did not know the family name. Secondly, I modified the photographs to reduce the probability of identification. Thirdly, the parents published these photographs in a place accessible by a large number of people and advertised the fact of such publication to the group. There is no way that they could have been aware of the membership of the group that was told about the photographs, so they must have been perfectly happy to show the pictures to a group of strangers and therefore willing to accept the risks arising from such exposure. This is consistent with the acceptance of risk inherent in their decision to expose their children to life-threatening, preventable diseases.
Charles was not happy with my response. Here is his next email, with my responses included in italics.
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:07:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Remove photos
To: Peter Bowditch
Your defense is insulting. While you may not have published the family's name, there are a number of variables published that could be traced to the source of the images.
1 - the fact that the parents published the images to a subscription based mailing list.
Yahoo! Groups alone hosts more than a million mailing lists. Please name them all. There are other listing hosts as well, and a large number of people using listserv and majordomo list software. Please name them all.
2 - the nature or subject of that list.
Please list all mailing lists anywhere on the Internet that can be found by using the keyword "anti-vaccination".
3 - the age of the children.
Please list all children who are four years old.
3 - the exact syntax or quoted text from the mail transmision "natural immunity".
Please list all email messages which contain the words "natural immunity" and which identify the writer.
4 - the images themselves.
The "modification" you made to these images is called "derivative work" under International Copyright Law, which you are clearly in violation of, having not obtained written permission from the copyright holder to publish these images.
"Fair use". Think about it.
The subscription based mailing list that these images were distributed to is not "strangers" to the family, but on the contrary, close friends.
Please list all members of the list at the time the images were announced. Note that the list should provide all information necessary to identify the real people behind the email addresses. This should be no problem as they are "close friends".
It is also a group of like-minded parents and individuals who share their views on this subject. The "risk" as you put it of this exposure is a non issue.
See request above for a list of list members.
The fact that you and your organization have differing views from those of this family would be irrelevant as well, however, your dialogue accuses them of "child abuse" which is defamatory, slanderous, and libel.
My opinion of what constitutes child abuse may differ from yours. Enthusiastically allowing children to catch dangerous, preventable diseases and then telling people how proud you are of this abuse is child abuse. As I have not identified the parties in any way they can hardly claim defamation unless they feel that their particular type of abuse is so unique that the mere mention of it is sufficient to identify them to the general public. As an aside, the terms "slander" and "libel" indicate different forms of defamation (depending on the method of publication) and so the expression "defamatory, slanderous, and libel" is excessively redundant.
You have been given fair warning. If you do not remove the photos from this site (https://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/vaxliars/chickenpox.htm). We will be forced to obtain a court order demanding you do so.
Do just that.
Another person misunderstood my reference to child abuse. My reply is in italics.
From: "wendy crow"
Subject: How can
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:16:28 -0500
How can a childhood disease, be child abuse? It looks like, in the pictures, the parents were taking care of their children. My child got chicken poxes at the age of 5 months!! Is that child abuse? She had them so bad, that they were in her mouth!! It is people like you, who wants to start stuff that is none of your DAMN business!! That is not child abuse, find something to do with your own life!!!!!
Did you take pictures of your pox-ridden children and show the pictures to strangers? Did you boast about how proud you were that your children were ill? Do you know that there are people out there who want more children to get chicken pox than already do? Do you know that the person who abused those children couldn't give a flying f*** about your children and wants all children to suffer from vaccine-preventable diseases? Do you know that there is a picture at https://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/vaxliars/varicella1.htm showing a child with pustules in her mouth? Do you ever think what would happen if the anti- vaccination liars get their way?
Irritated over stupid shit
So am I. Especially stupid shit like people who say that chicken pox is harmless and all children should get the disease. You know that this is not true. So do I. The people who proudly published pictures of their sick kids disagree with both of us.
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 23:53:47 +1000
Subject: (no subject)
If chicken pox is a form of child abuse and your child had chicken pox then you shouldn't even have your own child coming from your perspective. That's crazy. Maybe you should think about what you talk about, especially when you don't know much about the subject your talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't say that chicken pox is a form of child abuse. Perhaps if you read what I wrote you would know what you are talking about
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 13:26:07 -0700
From: angel roschele
Subject: child abuse
i think you're full of shit. I ran across your site while doing a report on child abuse. I do not mistake chicken pox for child abuse. It is not abuse to let a child go sick with a disease as long as that child isn't suffering. WITH the vaccine or not there is still a change a child COULD contract the pox. And believe it or not a child will still suffer whether or not he had the vaccine or not. So who the fuck are you to say that there parents are proud of their child's sickness! You need to wake up and smell the dog shit cause honey, you're full of beans. Until you know facts....you need to not be running your mouth or a site because all you do is create conflict and drama.
sent to you by
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:17:02 -0700
From: misty h
Subject: how could u
I THINK YOUR WHOLE LINE OF IT BEING CHILD ABUSE IS ABOUT FAR FECTCHED AS THE PARENTS HAVEING ALLOWED THESE CHILDREN TO CATCH THE CHICKEN POX. WHAT AN IDIOT U ARE. THE INTERNET HAS BECOME A BOOK OF KNOWLEDGE SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO RUN TO THE DOCTOR OVER EVERY LITTLE COUGH OR SPOT. SOME OF US DON'T HAVE MEDICAL INSURANCE AND HAVE TO PICK WHEN TO GO AND WHEN NOT GO, AND THEN PRAY THAT WE PICKED RIGHT. SO GOT TO HELL. I THANK THE PARTENTS WHO HAVE PUT THE PICTURES ON SITE. WHEN I THOUGHT THE MY CHILDREN HAD CONTACTED THE CHICKEN POX THE FIRST PLACE I TURNED TO WAS MY COMPUTER, AND PHONED THE DOCTOR. BETWEEN THE DOCTOR AND THE PICTURES I HAD THE INFORMATION. WHICH MEANS INFORMATION = POWER I KNEW THEN HOW TO HANDLE IT. IF U GET YOUR SICK KICKS FROM LOOKING AT THE PHOTOS FOR MORE THEN WHAT THEY ARE INTENDED FOR THEN STAY OFF THE SITE AND LET THE PARENTS USE IT FOR THE PURPOSE IT WAS INTENDED FOR.... INFORMATION, KNOWLEDGE, AND POWER.
From: "sherrilee day"
Subject: loving parents of children with chickenpox..
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:46:18 +1030
YOU REALLY DO SOUND LIKE AN IGNORANT MORON. EITHER YOU ARE IN BED WITH THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES OR HAVE JUST NOT GOTTEN OVER YOUR FLU SYMPTOMS AND SPOTS . I ALONG WITH MANY OTHER PEOPLE THINK MAYBE YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR THOUGHTS TO YOURSELF AS THEY DO NOT COUNT FOR MUCH AT ALL,OTHER THAN TO INSULT WELL MEANING LOVING PARENTS. YES! I HAVE READ YOUR LETTER AND I STILL SAY YOU ARE CALLING PARENTS CHILD ABUSERS FOR NOT IMMUNIZING THEIR CHILDREN. HAVE YOU NOT BEEN TOLD OF THE SIDE AFFECTS OF THESE VACCINES? I AM PICTURING YOU WITH BLACK EYES AND A PERMANENT FROWN. YOU NEED TO SPEND SOME TIME IN A DAY SPA AND TRY TO ACCEPT NATURES CIRCLE OF LIFE!
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 10:34:14 +1000
Just wanted to say that the article I read on parents allowing their children to contract chicken pocks being child abuse is the most riddiculous thing I have ever heard in my life!
It was nothing but shit stirring, as if any parent is going to take on the words of some deluded moron!
Unfortunately, some parents are only too ready "to take on the words of some deluded moron", which is why they are deceived by the anti-vaccination liars. Many of the liars, however, while being morons, are not deluded - they are venally and deliberately evil.
If I was you I would just give up and stop being such a dickhead!!!
From: Paul Sintra
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:51:57 -0800
"This is as much a form of abuse as beating them or having sex with them. Perhaps more, because bashers and sexual predators usually don't publicly boast about the fact and show photographs to strangers in order to progress their perverted agendas"
Were you molested as a child?