Comments and Articles
> Multi-Level Mail
This collection of mail about multi-level marketing and pyramid schemes covers correspondence received since January 1, 2006.
From: "Shawn D"
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 15:55:42 +0800
YOU ARE A FOOL MATE, YOU ARE DOING MORE HARM THAN GOOD. YOUR FACTS AND FINDINGS ARE SOLELY BASED ON YOUR OWN OPINION AND THE MINISCULE LENGTHS YOU GO TO TO VERIFY YOUR FACTS. YOU SHOULD BE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW IT'S NO-ONE ELSE'S FAULT, EVEN YOURS, THAT YOU WERE OBVIOUSLY SERIOUSLY ABUSED AS A CHILD AND PERHAPS IN YOUR LATER YEARS. HOW DO I KNOW THIS? AFTER CAREFUL ANALYSIS OF THE BS ON YOUR SITE, IT IS OBVIOUS YOU'RE JUST AN ANGRY LITTLE MAN WHO CAN ONLY FIND FULFILLMENT IN DESTROYING OTHERS HOPES AND DREAMS, BY PROVIDING THESE SO-CALLED FACTS THAT QUITE FRANKLY ARE DOWNRIGHT LIES. WHERE IN ANY OF YOUR ATTENTION SEEKING PEOPLE DESTROYING LIES IS THE PROOF TO BACK UP EVERY CLAIM YOU MAKE?? ON TOP OF THAT YOU DON'T ACTUALLY ANSWER OBJECTIONS, BUT RATHER ATTACK THE SMALL DETAILS SO THE AVERAGE PERSON WILL JUST LISTEN TO YOUR OPINION AND MAKE OTHERS LOOK BAD. SOME PEOPLE DO HAVE A LITTLE MORE KNOWLEDGE THAN TO BE SUCKED IN BY A PLAYGROUND BULLY WHO NEEDS SERIOUS DISCIPLINE. YOU ARE AN INCOMPETENT FOOL WITH A VOCABULARY THAT IS TOO BIG FOR YOU TO HANDLE AND WHEN DID YOU DECIDE TO STOP GATHERING NEW INFORMATION TO SUBSTANTIATE YOUR CLAIMS? IF YOUR SO INTELLECTUAL LIKE YOU MAKE OUT THEN DON'T YOU REALIZE THE WORLD WE LIVE IN IS CONSTANTLY CHANGING AND NEW RESEARCH AND FINDINGS ARE BEING DISCOVERED EVERY DAY!!! YOU NEED TO FIND SOMEONE PROFESSIONAL TO HELP YOU OVERCOME YOUR OBVIOUS SOCIAL AND MENTAL ISSUES SO YOU CAN STOP SPREADING HATEFUL HERESAY, AND DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE WITH YOUR WORTHLESS EXISTANCE THAT MAY ACTUALLY HELP PEOPLE MOVE FORWARD, NOT DRAG THEM WITH YOU WHILE YOU TAKE GIANT LEAPS BACK. EITHER THAT OR I SINCERELY HOPE KARMA CATCHES UP WITH YOU, AND A GREAT MISFORTUNE IS PLACED UPON EVERYTHING YOU EVER TRY TO ACHIEVE, UNTIL SUCH TIME AS YOU START TRYING TO GENUINELY DO SOMETHING FOR THE HUMAN RACE. WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW IS CLOSED-MINDED NEGATIVE NASTY VINDICTIVE SHIT THAT CAN ONLY COME FROM SOMEONE THAT HAS BEEN THROUGH SEVERE TRAUMA AT SOME STAGE OF THEIR LIFE. YOU PITIFUL EXCUSE FOR A HUMAN BEING!!!!!
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 12:29:41 +1000
From: Michael Borg
Subject: Har! Har! Hearty Har! Har! So sue me for saying it
The above is the comment you made regarding the collapse of Omegatrend.
I have no idea what you find so satisfying or funny about peoples livelihoods being destroyed. I would say you know nothing about the business.
If you had paid attention to what I wrote you would have seen that I expressed sympathy for the people who were deceived into joining this scheme and who had subsequently lost money. It is also probably worth thinking about the idea that if Omegatrend had been such a good business to be in and that participants had in fact been able to make it their "livelihood" then it might have been moving enough product and money to keep the doors open.
I would like to say burn in hell but I sincerely hope that pain and misery find you before death. But then again, it's quite obvious that you are a pethetic and miserable individual in any case.
You are scum
Thank you. I always take it as a compliment when I am called names by pyramid scheme enthusiasts.
I examined some advertisements for business opportunities in my local newspaper. Most of them at least had something to sell, but one was a pyramid scheme which only offered more instances of the same scam as products. Someone offered to help me by offering the same scam.
From: "Renea Rootes"
Subject: Re; Pyramid selling
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 22:12:29 +1000
My name is Renea and yes I do agree with most of what you have to say in regards to MLM as I have had some of these experiences, it is just a shame that the only way certain companys market great products is through MLM and to be able to afford them is to get people to buy them eg sign up underneath you, however I have finally found an oppurtunity to market my products and not ever have to prospect people again if I choose not to,this is the way of the future people shopping online for what they need.I have a number of great products that I love and like to offer to other people and this system allows me to advertise up to 6 products- and I haven't had to do the big MLM selling thing to anyone, the products are there and if you want to use them great.
I know about this scheme. I recently did an investigation into "business opportunities" advertised in my local paper, and this particular scam stood out because it had no product except the scam itself. By the way, I didn't see it using anything like the URL of your web site, but instead at www.happierlifestyle.com and www.prosperityautomatedsystem.com. To your credit, however, neither of those sites had a picture of an expensive car but yours did.
Yes I can make unbeleivable money just from promoting the system however I don't do the sale the company does that for me, then if that person was to buy into the system I don't stand to recieve pyramid money from that person- it is direct selling. I will give you my website to have a look at ask for a call back to talk to someone about this system. www.megawealthy.com/16512
If it isn't done by referral, then why does the main web site at www.megawealthy.com insist on seeing a distributor identifier as an introduction before letting anyone see the "opportunity"?
And what does Pegasus Mail have to say if you click on Renea's link?
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:57:23 -0600
Subject: About mannatech
From: Harrison Salisbury
You're a homo--you have no idea how well glyco helps the body. Wow! Stop fighting that which is doing so much good. It will knock you're socks off if you looked at it without the pride barrier.
Is he talking about gay pride? You can see more about the Mannatech scam here.
From: "Mark + Katrina Schonell"
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 22:28:31 +1100
I have just stumbled across your site and read some of your comments and now I feel very sad for you. You must have a very unhappy and bitter life. It sounds like you think you are doing good by complaining about other people who actually are doing good. I hope you can stand back and have a look at yourself one day and realise how much of your life you've wasted hiding behind a keyboard and complaining when you could be out there actually helping disadvantaged people to have a better life. Could you possibly think of someone other than yourself ?
Thank you for your comments. I am always open to suggestions about how I can improve my life and help others. How do you suggest I do this? Please don't advise me to join a multi-level marketing scheme. If I feel the need to take money from people without giving anything in return I will use a sawn-off shotgun and a ski mask. This is quicker, the victims know exactly what is happening to them, and they don't feel a loss of self-respect afterwards.
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 10:14:15 -0800
From: Lindsey Littleton
Subject: Lindsey Littleton-Mannatech is Not A Spam.
I just want to tell you that you have no idea what you're talking about. Mannatech is not a scam at all. I personally know people who sell it and I take it because I have eczema and over the past 5 years, I don't even look like the same person. You really need to get your facts straight because Dr. Gunter Blobal isn't even the doctor that discovered these glyconutrients. You're an idiiot dude.
You can see what I had to say about Dr Blobel and Mannatech here. Perhaps it's not me who is the "idiiot".
Subject: Wondering and having a jolly good laugh at the same time
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:37:24 +1000
Goodness me, you certainly are a ratbag aren't you?
Even with all your logic, you can't explain why the Amway Corporation continues to prosper and why people volunteer to "have a go" and why some, not all, achieve their aims and that really sticks in your craw doesn't it?
(Where's your rant against the bumble bee, then? How dare it fly and defy physics! To the laptop!!!)
Why? What is so reprehensible to you that you must embark upon such vitriolic perambulations of the mind?
What is causing you to choose to project an image of being such an unpleasant individual?
You're obviously not involved, and have no interest, so why get so hot and bothered? Why display your baseless hostility so blatantly? What's the payoff?
Do you do the same when some prospect refuses your software/hardware? That would be fun to watch, I'm sure….
If I were to say that you a lying crook for offering someone your highly suspect software/hardware products and call anyone buying them a sucker then I daresay you would do one of two things. Dismiss them as ignorant or get undone. From the tone of your writings I'm thinking the latter. I may be wrong.
As I don't know what products you're offering, I wouldn't embarrass myself by appearing ignorant.
You are choosing to remain clueless about Network 21 and unwilling to learn different. Good for you.
You obviously choose not to agree with the judgement of the authorities in the United Statesthat the business model is not an illegal pyramid, a view supported in Australiaand at least another 90 countries/territories. Bully for you.
In the end, your opinion can be summed up in two words.
Right minded individuals will investigate and judge the business on merit and on how it can help them achieve whatever it is they want.
Others will succumb to the preachings of a naysayer like you. At least you're assured of being less misguided than them.
It's a pisser of a way to get recognition though…
Relax a little. Find something useful to do…
I didn't bother to reply, because I have said it all before and they either don't listen or don't hear. I love the bit about bumble bees. I bet that bit of long-refuted nonsense is offered by uplines as a guaranteed objection-stopper. It's a pity that there is nothing in physics which suggests that a bee can't fly once you know how it actually moves its wings. Still, why should facts interfere with a sales pitch.
Andrew was not happy that I didn't reply. I was right, though - replying would have been a waste of time because it has all been said before.
From: Andrew Curling
Subject: FW: Hello again
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:55:16 +1000
You didn't reply to me because you had no response that could or would paint yourself in a pleasant, intelligent light. You haven't "said it all before" at all.
Re: your comments about the bumble bee. It's good that you're prepared to examine more thoroughly the physics involved.
It's a shame you have chosen not to investigate this issue objectively and thoroughly. I'm sure you did your best. It just wasn't good enough...
Your comments regarding Jay Van Andel were reprehensible but not unexpected. You must pander to your disciples, the "even-more-pitiful-than-you"… or EMPTY's, for short.
I'd pay good money to see you repeat them in front of his family but given your cowardice I'm betting my money won't be spent. You're just not good enough, after all...
People who lose money in ventures fail to properly investigate the responsibilities and risks involved. It doesn't matter if it is in business or investments, traditional or otherwise.
In the case of the Amway or indeed any other business, there is a need for an "employee" to understand the change in mindset required to run a business. Too many remain locked in the employee paradigm and are unwilling to learn different. That is why they fail.
I'm sure that even in your university days, so many, many, many years ago, fewer finished courses than started them. Was the course wrong or could the students simply not "cut it"? (It's alright, I know the answer.)
Look, you obviously believe you're educated enough. You're not,...obviously.
Your paradigm encompasses narrowness of mind and scepticism, so you do satisfy the requirements of that charter. Well done!
You can't or won't change your views because it would be too difficult for you to explain all the decisions you've already made. (Big loss of face involved upon realising the stupidity of your thoughts and actions).
Your contempt for everything, apart from your own delusional ilk, and your lack of humility ensure your place as a member of the vanguard for insignificance and obscurity. ("Follow me, EMPTY's!", "Where to?", " Nowhere! Let's go! I know a shortcut!")
You are a fine example for people, especially your children, of what not to be. Again, I'm sure you did your best. It's just that you're not good enough...
Subject: Amway...Ntwrk 21
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:33:42 +0200
From: "Paola Young"
Just reading through the commentary of some sceptics really irritates me. There is no promise from Amway or Ntwrk 21 that you'll get rich quick. In fact they emphasise HARD WORK. It is also made very clear that it is a form of passive income. How big you go or get is up to you; your vision, skills and what you put in results in what you get out. You make people aware of quality products that have a 90 day guarantee. Someone decide to purchase a product and the product speaks for itself. A one time customer will land up becoming a regular because of the results of the product. The money that would have been spent on advertising is put in research instead. Direct selling reduces the retail price as middleman etc is cut out. 30% of a sale goes into your pocket or 25, 10 etc. You decide on what % of profit you want. You are not allowed however to exceed 30%. Every product has a point value, if your sales are good and you collect many points, a commission is paid out to you. If you add to the team as a group on business volume that you move you get paid a further commission. If you get to a point that you expand & create your own team naturally your commission increases. It is not a pyramid scheme because in simple terms, you don't ever sit back and let "your little ants" work for you. You don't get to take their profit in any way. All that happens is a group incentive & a larger commission on a larger group. Some people run with the motivation & vision they see available to them through this opportunity and others are content with a bit of pocket money here & there. Big things can happen if you have the incentive and work for it. All the bitching & griping! Honestly what for?! Yes, we live in a paranoid world with unrealistic expectations, wanting the easy way out. Please people get your facts STRAIGHT. Work = results. Mouthing off = crap that some people might slip in. Thanks. P.S. I am not a crook, hustler or con-artist…just a herd worker who enjoys making a little extra when the payslip of my regular job doesn't meet my needs.
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:02:04 +1000
i thought i'd say a few words on AMWAY..
This company has operated since 1959,
It was once primarily a soap company, but now it works in association with Nutrilite (the worlds largest viatmin and seupplement company) as the Wellness revolution is going to be the next huge trend (it already is),
Amway sales increase every year,
More IBO's in the business than ever before,
Amway opens in new markets and new contries every year - making it available in over 90 countries,
There is no salesman from Network 21 doing the presentations.
Every Network Marketing company tries to copy Amway - but none can.
I feel sorry for you unintelligent and petty minded individuals for being so misinformed and believing the first thing you're told.
I'm in Amway and i have the freedom to work when it's convenient for me, earn more money than all you wowsers put together and will continue to live my dreams, all because i bought a few products and found that the products were awesome then just told a few people..
You poor cynics:
From: Paul Krismanits
Subject: Question about Mannatech
Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 22:31:02 -0400
I read everything you have posted and I must ask, are you an idiot? You say over and over again that their doctor didn't win the Nobel Prize but I googled it and he DID win it in medicine in 1999. Look it up yourself https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1999/.
You might like to point to exactly where I said that Dr Blobel didn't win the Nobel Prize. If your Google skills are good enough, you might even find where I said:
Dr Gunter Blobel, who won the Physiology or Medicine Prize in 1999 "for the discovery that proteins have intrinsic signals that govern their transport and localization in the cell".
Did you notice the web link there? It appears to be the same one you gave me, and I had it in 2006.
So what it didn't have to do with their product?
If it had nothing to do with the product, why do they use his name as a form of endorsement?
The dude still works for them!
Does he? Then why did he get a lawyer to issue a Cease and Desist order against Mannatech for saying that his research had something to do with sugar pills? Most people don't stay employed if they set lawyers on the boss. Even you recognise (see above) that his research had nothing to do with Mannatech.
Also, I couldn't find ANYWHERE but your own site where it says 1994 for the prize.
I was quoting from a message sent to me by a Mannatech distributor. The fact that the lie doesn't appear elsewhere just makes it even more ludicrous.
Your attempt to discredit through this one area is ludicrous. So one salesman who didn't quite know what he was talking about e-mails you and you use that against the company?
No, I used it against the writer, but surely even you can find examples of fraudulent claims of Mannatech-related research winning Nobel Prizes. You can see some Nobel winners complaining about the lies here.
Since you know MLM so well, you should know that their salespeople are self-employed. THe company itself never made that statement.
Of course it didn't. MLM companies rely strongly on the distributors making the claims, so that the companies can use what is called "plausible deniability". It just seems rather a strong coincidence that the same lies keep coming from different distributors.
So what is it? Did you just try Mannatech and suck so now you have to go nuts on it?
The education in basic arithmetic I received in school prevented me from ever joining any pyramid scheme, however well disguised from the law they might be. I don't have to keep a dead dog in my house to know that something rotten smells bad.
That sure is open-minded. I read over and over your site, and your just a smug SOB who is twisting stuff to fit your own opinions, without any real regard for the truth or any desire to find out what it really is. You must be a Democrat.
Why? Do Democrats have a better grasp of reality than members of other parties?
Oh, and I bet this e-mail never finds its way onto your page. Coward.
You lost that bet, didn't you? On four pages to start off with, and then only three after it drops off the front page.
From: (Neil Reinhardt)
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:16:07 -0700
Too bad the Millennium Project keeps putting out FALSE information!
A. The odds of whomever puts out this site being, and/or even knowing anyone who is MORE Honest and Truthful than I am IS ZERO.
B. The odds of them being more generally experienced than I am are so close to zero, it may as well be zero. (I am much more experienced than most my age and I am 75.)
I've most probably forgotten many times more about Network Marketing than the ding bat who writes it in that site will ever learn! IT is a shame IGNORANT people shoot down things it is certainly very, very obvious to any knowledgeable people they have NO damn clue about!
People who are either too lazy to get the facts and/or so stupid they are unable to comprehend what the facts mean, should keep their mouths closed!
Anyone who says all network marketing companies are scams is a close minded retarded idiot who would not know what eiither facts or the truth is were it a sharp pointed cactus they sat on while naked!
Neil C. Reinhardt
"A Pro Iraq War Agnostic Atheist Activist, 101st Vet & Iconoclastic, Philosophizing, Beach VolleyBall Playing Grumpy Old Son Of A Beach!"
I really love Nature's Immune Boosting (over 150%) Healing "miracle" which I've been drinking and/or using topically since September of 1979 when I was only 62 years old. (And it STILL AMAZES ME! )
GET THAT? THIRTEEN YEARS!
A Proud Supporter of the TEA PARTY Movement
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:44:13 +0100
Subject: Your comment on my blog
From: Jenny Fletcher
You asked in a comment on my blog what happened to the Xocai business.
Did I? As far as I know the thirteenth word in your email is the first time I have ever seen the word "Xocai". Of course, it could simply be a case of it being so inconsequential that I have forgotten.
Remind me. Where is this blog of which you speak?
A number of things.
1. The US/GBP exchange rate changed so that it became prohibitively expensive to buy the product. The exchange rate is now a lot more favourable but I had to consider my finances at the time and those of my prospective customers.
2. I was not well. You can see that there are some big gaps in blog posts. I have suffered severe depression and been suicidal. Nothing to do with the business, and not prepared to discuss with you.
I'm sorry to hear that. I know people who have been through the same experience.
3. A member of Xocai in my upline tried to say that another business I was pursuing was against the rules. It was an entirely different product and not against the rules at all. I got a letter from Xocai legal department to prove it and she was removed from her position as a top UK representative. She concocted a hate campaign against me which did not help my depression. I really had no other option than to pull out.
As it is the job of the upline in any pyramid scheme to tell lies I am not surprised at this.
Thanks to the help of my local adult mental health services I am now a lot better and engaging in life and business again.
I looked at your site. The section on religion and creationism is very funny but I regret to say that the rest of the site is mostly ill informed trash. If you take the next logical step along your idea path, you will come to the conclusion that the Government and taxation systems of the free world are also pyramid schemes.
No, I would not. Didn't your upline tell you to mention General Motors, the usual example taught in MLM school?
Believe what you will, but your comments are not welcome on my blog.
Run away, then. It is typical of people involved in scams to want to suppress criticism. As MLM is a scam by definition participants don't necessarily know they are involved in fraud, but they are taught how to react to exposure.
Thank you. Have fun, but be aware that one day, a legal action against you for defamation WILL happen if you push the envelope too far in your criticism of the network marketing industry.
The network marketing industry is fraud from top to bottom. Deal with it. And who am I defaming? Most of the participants are innocent dupes who just happen to believe the lies told by salespeople.
Thank you for telling me about Xocai. I will be adding it to the list of MLM scams at my site in the next update. (And yes, for the pedants, "MLM scams" is a tautology.)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:11:38 +0100
Subject: Re: Your comment on my blog
From: Jenny Fletcher
Don't be disingenuous. You know perfectly well which blog and which business.
No I don't, which is why I asked. As far as I know the first time I ever encountered the word "Xocai" was in your email. Why do you want to keep it a secret?
Or do you insult so many people in a day, you forget what blogs you commented on. You will have had an email from google Blogger telling you that your comment was held for moderation.
I have received 26 emails with "blogger" in the headers in the last year and 11 with "blogspot". None of them have anything to do with moderation of any blog message I've posted.
You made a clear allegation that I am or was knowingly involved in some kind of illegal business. This is not the case.
I don't think MLM schemes are illegal (although they should be). They are immoral, but there are lots of strictly legal activities that fall outside the bounds of common morality and decency. One of the management skills of MLM scheme promoters is ensuring that their activities are right on the edge of legality without actually breaking laws.
If you now turn your attention to my current business I will bring it to their attention and let their legal department deal with you.
As I don't even know what your last business was I'm at a disadvantage when it comes to commenting about any new business you might be in. Have you joined another pyramid scam?
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:31:34 +0100
Subject: Re: Your comment on my blog
From: Jenny Fletcher
Peter YOU COMMENTED ON MY BLOG and you asked about 'my chocolate business'. Don't add more lies to gross stupidity.
Then you will have no problem giving me a link to the blog and my comment to refresh my memory.
If you are so thick that you really can't remember, then I am not going to help you by explaining how you find out what sites you've visited. Idiots like you don't deserve air to breathe.
No, I don't necessarily remember every web site I ever visit. That is why I am asking you to remind me. Why can't you do that?
On your pathetic little site you refer constantly to all network marketing business as being a 'pyramid scam' and therefore illegal. You can't worm out of it. Or perhaps you are saying you didn't write that?
Please provide a link to anywhere where I have said that all MLM schemes are illegal. In fact, if you go to https://ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/thedream.htm you can see a perfectly legal MLM scheme that I created myself.
26 emails ? Is that 26 instances of accusing legitimate business owners of being criminals?
No, it is exactly what I said. Emails that had "blogger" somewhere in the headers.
Just close down your site and go and sit in the shade. The sun has obviously addled your brain.
Why should I close down my site? It performs a useful service warning people about scams like MLM.
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:45:50 +0100
Subject: Re: Your comment on my blog
From: Jenny Fletcher
You can look back through your own damn browser history.
How far back. One month? One year? Right back to 1999 when I started this site?
Are you saying you don't recall asking the question?
I have said that several times. Do you have a comprehension problem?
How did you come by the blog in the first place?
Which blog would that be? Why can't you tell me this?
There is no point you going back to my blog. None of the comments you could make will ever appear there. I am not responsible for refreshing your memory.
So I assume that you are lying. Otherwise you could point me to your blog and prove me wrong.
Either network marketing businesses - MLM in your parlance are legal or they are scams. No shades of grey.
I'll say this real slow for the hard of thinking - all MLM schemes are scams, but they are perfectly legal provided that the promoters have been careful enough to avoid infringing the definitions of pyramid schemes in legislation. Did you even bother to look at the LEGAL MLM scheme that I invented. Legal as it can be, backed by a decision of the full bench of the Federal Court of Australia.
You have a list of what you term illegal businesses. If I find Xocai has been added to that list, I will advise their legal department. The fact that I am no longer their distributor is irrelevant here.
I have a list of what I term "scams". I make no comment about legality. As you have mentioned legal action, I will add this to the list of Vacuous Legal Threats at https://ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/lawyersahoy.htm.
Don't bother replying to this. Your mail is already directed to spam and from there a filter called 'trolls' will permanently remove it as from today.
I'm prepared to bet money that you will read this. People who announce killfiling almost never really do it. And why would you be frightened of what I have to say anyway? All you have to do is tell me where this apocryphal blog is and prove me wrong.
Oh, and before I forget - if Xocai is a multi-level marketing scheme then it is quite probably legal. Immoral, deceitful, but almost certainly legal. Sad, isn't it?