> Mail About Vaccination - Part 2
The messages below have not been edited except for the removal of email addresses and extraneous lines. Words in Italics are comments and annotations by me. Some of my thoughts about vaccination can be found here.
You know, maybe your the rat bag! You are claiming all these sites are full of lies, has it ever dawned on you that there are thousands of web sites that know the truth about vaccines and are making it aware to others, yet you think people are going to think they are crazy! LOL....I guess it would be crazy if only a handful of people thought bad about vaccines, but when you get a large number of people who actually do research, and do studies, maybe your the crazy one.
From: "Michelle M"
To: <peterb@gebesse com au>
Date sent: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:23:19 -0700
If I may ask, are you proud to have such a biased person to work for your company? Peter Bowditch has a web site on line called ratbags.com and it is very sad. He calls many people liars. How will think affect your company when he advertises who he works for on his web site?
I would have thought that the email address would have provided a clue about who would receive this message complaining about me.
From: "Jason Stevens"
Subject: Please add our website to your list of nazi -Ku Klux Klan anti-vaccine proponents
Date sent: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 19:04:20 -0500
My name is Rose Stevens and I belong to the Association for Vaccine Damaged Children in Canada. Our web site for the Eagle Foundation is www.eaglefoundation.org and we would like to be added to your list of "anti-vaccine flea bags" Proud to be one of them!!! Please have a look at our web site--especially click on "Latest News" and then on "Vaccine Controversy" You will absolutely love the picture that is being used as a poster for the Health and Wellness Expo we will be speaking at here in Winnipeg. These posters are all over Winnipeg. We actually got the thumbs up to use the front cover of a Canadian Newsmagazine for our Vaccine Risk Awareness Posters. Maybe you would like the address of the magazine so that you can add them to your list of "nazi--Ku Klux Klan" anti-vaccine proponents. It is obvious from your web site that you must have had too many vaccines in your life time. Sincerely Rose Stevens--P. S. Are you really a Proctologist?? Maybe you have had your head in the wrong place for too long and it has clouded your prospective.
It's always a pleasure to add another link to the list, especially one who wants to be associated with racist and hate sites.
Date sent: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 19:34:02 -0400
From: "Ginny O'Connell"
and thank you DR. for reaffirming my opinion
of the likes of you.
Me thiks thou protesteth too much.
So being a DR (which I am not) is a bad thing?
Date sent: Wed, 31 May 2000 16:54:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Foster
Subject: Comments on your "Anti-vaccination liars" site
A few notes regarding your "Anti-Vaccination Liars" site:
1) First I commend you for including your email address so visitors to your site may give you feedback.
2) The following is actually quite ironic:
"Note to anti-vaccinationists: Please let me know when your efforts to stop vaccination have been successful so I know when I can expect to see you start campaigning for the banning of sanitation, antibiotics, refrigeration and clean hands."
There is a LOT of evidence available that vaccines are NOT the main reason for the decline in "vaccine-preventable" diseases. Indeed, such things as sanitation, antibiotics, etc. that you mention above are the major contributing factors. If you don't agree then I suggest that you need to do some research.
3) The degree of ignorance displayed on your site is apalling. I have been researching vaccines for about 4 years now, and I can identify those sites/folks that you list that are "way out there". But these are the minority. You seem to think that a vaccine-autism connection is preposterous...evidently several congressional panels did not agree. You think a vaccine-asthma connection is rediculous, but there is a lot of research out there that has already shown that this is not only possible but probable. Do some research and find out for yourself. Or do you prefer to be spoon-fed by the talking heads at the CDC and NIH (they looked pretty bad at the last few rounds of Congressional hearings concerning vaccines).
Testimony on Congressional Autism Hearings: http://www.house.gov/reform/hearings/healthcare/00.06.04/i ndex.htm
4) Just how do you determine who is a "quack"? The fact that you have Dr. Burzynski listed proves that you do not have an ounce of credibility! Were you aware that Dr. Burzynski is currently involved in over 70 FDA-approved phase-III clinical trials, and that his treatment has been given the "thumbs-up" by several NCI researchers?
Quack treatments do not make it to phase-III clinical trials, much less get FDA approval for use on children in such trials.
In summary, you are full of shit.
Perhaps you should think about who you affiliate yourself with. The CDC has a long history of deceipt and denial that continues even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary (eg. for 30 years they claimed that the pertussis vaccine causes no permanent adverse reactions; some researchers still preach this crap!). The WHO allows dangerous trials to be carried out on unwitting third-world populations, and sanctions the distribution of tetanus vaccine laced with a birth- control drug to unknowing third-world populations. The history of vaccine development has been one disaster after another, but when money (not the health of our children) is the final goal you can get away with murder, literally. Contamination of the polio vaccines has resulted in our entire species being littered with simian virii that are carcinogenic, teratogenic, and quite possibly may have brought about the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, the worst medical disaster in centuries.
I am sure you will think I am crazy after what I've just written, but that is only because you are uninformed, narrow-minded, and probably lack the intelligence to research these issues yourself and form your own opinions.
Have a nice day.
Date sent: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 02:16:50 +0100
Subject: If we could only stop the world and let you off
From: "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com>
Vaccines safe? You are truly misinformed or remarkably dumb, or perhaps both.
Your site, your uninformed opinions are an an insult to those of us whose children have been injured by vaccination.
Why don\\\'t you provide us with evidence that demonstraqte vaccines are safe and effective?
Didn\\\'t think you could. windbag
I don't know what this lying cretin thinks he is going to achieve by sending me messages like this. I don't debate anonymous liars. And how do I know they are liars? Well, nobody concerned with the truth would hide behind an anonymiser service. This message was sent to me twice. It made no more sense the second time.
From: "Jodie Flood"
Date sent: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 20:42:41 +1100
After reading your pro vaccination web page I am convinced that you are the arsehole that your email address claims you to be. You must be the most arrogant, pig headed, ignorant wanker I have ever heard of. I am offended at the nasty way in which you slag off the anti-vaccinationists as being uneducated idiots. Those who choose to not vaccinate have usually done much research into the dangers of vaccinations and make an educated choice about not vaccinating. Those who choose to vaccinate are usually making a blind decision, due to the fact that their doctor doesn't have the time nor can be bothered to discuss the risks. How dare you suggest that anti-vaccinationists don't care about the dreaded diseases that vaccinations are trying to prevent. I most certainly would hate to see a small child die of whooping cough. Did you know that most children who contract this disease are actually vaccinated against it? Did you know that Polio was 90% erradicated through improved sanitation and living conditions BEFORE a vaccine as introduced? Most healthy children who contract infectious diseases naturally, build up a better immune system and life long immunity against these diseases. The children who suffer badly from infectious diseases are usually not completely healthy in the first place, their immune systems are run down. I am a doctor myself and I am pregnant with my first child and there is absolutely no way on this earth that I will take the risk of my child being injured with un-neccessary vaccinations. Many vaccines are dangerous as well as being inefficient at the job that they are supposed to do. If medical professionals chose to naturally improve the immune systems of our children instead of battering them with large quantities of bacteria (and other poisonous substances) which their tiny little bodies' immune systems aren't equipt for, then maybe this world would be a happier, healthier place. Oh and of course if dickheads like you weren't in it.
Dr J Flood
I wonder what sort of "doctor" Dr Flood is. There are hints in this letter that it isn't the medical sort, unless she has a very bad memory.
Date sent: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 01:24:04 +0100
Subject: Think Again!
From: "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com>
Being a fellow Austalian and essentially a neighbour of yours, and having a child who has been diabled by vaccination, I feel compelled to write to you about this senseless exercise you call the Millenium Project.
You claim that vaccines are \\\"good\\\" and the right thing to do. Let me tell you that my child experienced anafalaxsis within 20 minutes of being vaccinated for DPT and has been profoundly developmentally handicapped since that time. There is no rationale for vaccinating in this manner when injury is obviously inevitable. In fact the America\\\'s CDC reports vaccine injury that is in the thousands each and every year.
I will be writing and petitioning any and everyone that can force or influence you to stop propagating such obvious lies. I am also a member of the Australian Computer Society and I will be making representation to them concerning your membership.
Your site is an abomination.
Could this be the Gutless Anonymous Liar, writing almost literately? As this message is anonymous, it cannot be taken seriously.
Date sent: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:14:29 +0100
Subject: We will see who the liar is.
From: "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com>
I note your quaint, infantile and indignent response to my e-mail.My anonymity is only with you. I\\\'ve seen what you have done to others who reveal their identity to you.
I intend on introducing your lies and intentions to mislead and misinform to those who can sanction you. I will persue some form of closure that insures the type of lunacy you peddle is stopped. Perhaps you\\\'d like to address my daughter in the press and tell her of all the good vaccination can be.
You are foul man with distorted ideas and clearly devoted misinforming the public.
Subject: Are you serious?
Date sent: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:22:08 +1100
"Shaken Babies or Vaccine Damage?
This site belongs to Principal Research Scientist (retired) Dr Viera Scheibner PhD. When I tell people about this site, they don't believe me and have to go and see for themselves that someone is actually claiming that brain damage, dislocated retinas, bruising and other damage observed in some young children is caused by vaccination, with almost no possibility that it might be the result of abuse. I don't know what she says about the broken bones, cigarette burns and genital injuries that some of these children exhibit, but I have no doubt she could link these to vaccines as well. It was bad enough when this evil woman just increased the distress of parents mourning the loss of children through SIDS by lying about its cause, but the venality of whoring as an expert witness for the defence of child abusers indicates a hatred of children that can only be a mystery to those of us who are sane."
The above snippet was taken from your website. I noticed considerable venom in your tone - you obviously feel strongly.
Assuming you have any integrity whatsoever, I challenge you to read the articles published by Viera. She draws only upon peer reviewed literature (something you people are incapable of it seems).
I think once you actually do some research into this subject you will find yourself eating your words.
But then, judging from the lack of any research on the rest of your site, I am sure you do not really give a stuff about abused kids at all. Otherwise you would check what you publish.
I am sure you fascists really get your jollies off by ridiculing what other people in this free, democratic society choose to believe, but the topic of babies dying from vaccine reactions is going to make you eat your words one day.
Are you aware that formaldehyde, mercury, aluminium, and other solvents are injected along with the vaccines? I bet not!
Tell you what Einstein, phone the Poisons Information Centre (want the phone number?) and ask them what is the minimum safe amount of formaldehyde to inject into babies. Or ditto for mercury, aluminium hydroxide etc.
Oh, don't take my word for it - check with the doctors administering vaccines, and ask them what adjuvant is in their batch.
Your arrogance, and ignorance is only going to help kill more kids, and jail more innocent parents. That's right - YOU are the scumbags this time.
Prove me wrong. Just look into it and try to prove me wrong.
Heck, you may even bother to read Viera's books or articles - but I think you would find the language and terminology way above your comprehension. Try reading them and see, her articles are at my website, for free.
Isn't it ironic how much you have now become the same as those you seek to ridicule.
I await a reply from someone with a braincell capable of reading Viera's article.
Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280; Fax: +61 (0)7 5442 9381
"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means. On the contrary, the means always determine the end." (Aldous Huxley)
Date sent: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:51:06 -0500
Peter Bowditch, you reply to anti-vaccination "Liars" at the bottom of your page, https://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/vaxmail.htm
I'm probably just repeating a theme you've heard all your life, but nevertheless:
The "Liars" provide strong evidence (with experience) and they have asked you for your evidence, yet you provide none. Your tone is arrogant and, without your evidence, we have no choice but to assume you ignorant. Your site brings attention to the serious issues that the vaccinationists have brought forward and you are the perfect foil. Thank you.
Date sent: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 15:03:23 -0600
From: Scott Hunter
Are you guys for real? This woman is trying to save countless children from the stupefying medicine of corporate America. Come talk to someone who's felt the pain of vaccine damage first hand and felt the unbelievable audacity of the pharmaceuticals salespeople in physician's clothing...are you truly that daft?
Pomposity is something you obviously know too well...stop taking up space on the web.
Yes, we are for real. Scheibner believes that it is better to have children beaten to death than to admit that vaccines may be useful.
Date sent: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:49:48 +0200
Subject: You are a fool!
From: "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com>
The CDC reported last year that the #1 killer in the world was pharmaceutical drugs. That included vaccines. What you quite evidentially and continually ignore is vaccine cultured in non-human species has proven to be, over and over again, lethal. These vaccines continue to be used today and are singularly responsible for more iatoragenically induced death and injury in children than the lives they save.
Perhaps, until you have some scientifically based grounds for comment, you might want to keep your fucking mouth shut. By the way, as a member of the AMA, you have been sanctioned as has one of your co-lunatics, Barrett.
You are a dinosaur and have no place on the internet or usenet.
This came through the anonymous remailer favoured recently by the Gutless Anonymous Liar, but as it is literate, uses my name correctly, and indicates that the writer thinks I am a member of the AMA it probably comes from someone else. Still worthless, of course, as is anyone who writes anonymously.
Date sent: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:40:19 EDT
Subject: about your page
OK I understadn that yout hink people who don;t vaccinate their children are horrible and are trying to kill them. I understand that is what you are saying. But where do you get your facts? Are you a doctor? or a scientist? I am just curious.
Date sent: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:50:57 +1000
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (dfgsdfg)
Subject: comindico, optus, and webmail
sounds to me that you're probably vaccine injured and just to fucking dumb to know!
why don't you drop by and visit my son
fuck you asshole
This was sent to me through the Millenium Project Harassment Assistance Tool. The strange subject line and the domain name used in the obviously forged email address suggest that the writer had traced the path across the Internet from where they were to the machine which hosts this site. Why it would do this is a mystery. Perhaps it is some kind of subtle threat. Who knows? As the writer is anonymous, who cares?
Date sent: 22 Aug 2001 00:41:15 -0000
Send reply to: email@example.com
Subject: let's meet!
Why don't we exchane telephone numbers and we can meet. I'll bring my son along. He was vaccine-injured by MMR. He is now profoundly retarded and requires 24 hour care. Both my wife and I have lost our jobs and we're on social assistance. Perhaps you can help?
-- This message has been sent via an anonymous mail relay at www.no-id.com.
My opinion of people who use anonymous remailers is quite clear and well-known. The abbreviation is LSOS.
From: "MARK M. SACCOMAN, D.C."
Date sent: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:06:57 -0600
In answer to your request, please refer to the National Vaccine Information Center's April 1992 News, page 12. Here you will find evidence that in European countries that refused immunization for small pox and polio the epidemics ended simultaneously with the ones who mandated vaccination. They also state that initially, there were increases in the incidences of polio and small pox following vaccination campaigns and that while everyone was campaigning for vaccination of these two diseases, the occurance of other infectious diseases began to decline. Because vaccination paralleled improved sanitation and hygienic practices, they cannot be credited with a high percentage of decrease in infectious disease. I appreciate your point of view, however, it seems that your ignorance on the subject has bred fear into you that you express through hostile editorials. You must understand that not everyone who chooses not to vaccinate is leaving their child, and society, unprotected. There are two natural antivirals that I know of that can prevent and soften the effects of infectious disease--olive leaf extract and pau 'd arco bark extract. Olive leaf extract has even been found to reverse HIV + blood to HIV - blood (please research Dr. Morton Walker's book NATURE'S ANTIBIOTIC: OLIVE LEAF EXTRACT). Do you realize that the preservatives used in vaccinations are thimersol (mercury), aluminum phosphate, and formaldehyde?! Even the FDA suggests that there is no amount of formaldehyde suitable for human consumption or injection. Aluminum has been linked to (amoung other things) Alzheimer's, and didn't your parents ever tell you to be careful with a mercury thermometer because if you drop it the mercury could hurt you? Furthermore, you say that anti-vaccinationists think that every disease is linked to innoculations, well prove that they're not. Just because you can't prove something doesn't mean it's not a possibility--and that goes for both sides of the issue. It is possible that vaccines can prevent serious illness, but it is also possible that vaccines can cause serious illness. Please take a visit to the National Vaccine Information Center's website before you further criticize that which is unfamiliar to you.
The 1992 paper does not appear to be available anywhere on the web, so I can't read it unless I can see it. If it is down to the normal standard of the NVIC (and I have seen the web site, so it is not unfamiliar to me) then it will contain a mixture of half-truths and outright lies. Any truth that it contains will be either accidental or deliberately misconstrued. It almost goes without saying that I have never said that "anti-vaccinationists think that every disease is linked to innoculations". A note on the date of this message - it arrived here on 22 August, so someone's computer clock is wrong.
The following email won its author the 2001 Millenium Award for Quote of the Year.
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:21:30 EST
Subject: Some vaccinations are not safe--MMR and the P in DPT
Dear Defensive Doc:
Until it happens to your beautiful, healthy, full-term, breast-fed child, then you should not judge others as "liars". Adverse reactions to vaccinations do indeed ex- ist. I used to be a proponent for vaccinations, not aware of the potential dangers, in part to the sugar-coated spiel given by the doctors and the diluted reactions form given pre-consent to vaccinations. Reactions aren't as uncommon as you would like to brainwash consumers to believe. My child almost died because of his stupid MMR shot and you "experts" tell me that since he didn't die or end up brain-damaged (which took a whole year to determine) that a reaction didn't happen. How do you sleep at night knowing that you are the real liar?
Your picture of the girl with polio might be more convincing if she weren't from a third-world country. Don't you silly quacks know that there haven't been any cases of polio in the United States in the past 17 years, since it quit being administered. Wake up, you're are the ones being lied to and I can empathize a minute amount about the fact that it is your job to promote vaccinations--you wouldn't be able to drive your expensive foreign cars otherwise. But, I have a hunch that even you heartless "yes" men and women wouldn't give ALL the shots to your own kids--you know the ones, but you don't offer the option to waive those shots to the common folks. You are privy to that information, hell with the rest of us.
I am not a doctor (not that it matters but the anti-vaccination liars seem to think it is a term of abuse). All my children have had all the vaccines that were available at the appropriate time. And don't you just love "Your picture of the girl with polio might be more convincing if she weren't from a third-world country"? The picture was included to show what the effects of polio could look like (you can see it here) and I make no distinction between children wherever they may be. Of course, any anti-vaccination campaigner divides children into two groups - their own children who must never be exposed to the slightest risk and everyone else's children who are disposable.